It’s so bizarre to see this discussion play out on the basis of “health”
Because there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the economics of how milk pasteurization requirements have affected local dairy farms. How the unsanitary conditions of industrial scale milk production have made it a necessity. How marketing and corporate interests have shifted consumption patterns.
And yet these fucking dipshits have turned this in to “pasteurized milk personally harms you!” In grifter circles.
How screwed are we that we can’t talk about the complexities of how corporate farming practices have effected our food supplies with out couching it in terms of “health food”.
I cannot express how much I hate the term “health food”. There is no such fucking thing as a “health food”.
It makes me want to rip my hair out when these topics come up.
This problem has always bugged me writ large as well. It seems nearly impossible to have any conversation that looks at the bigger picture of things in a complete and nuanced way.
Take for example employment rates. It’s just taken as a given that high employment is the goal. But stop and think about that for a second. In any other part of your life is your goal to completely saturate all time with labor? No, obviously not.
But the goals are set and we must achieve them. More money next quarter than last quarter, it doesn’t matter if every conceivable customer already has a subscription, we must grow. Make the product cheaper to make, charge more, do anything but consider that we might have picked stupid goals.
Agreed with everything you said. I had a class about bio processes and one of them was about production of cheese and during the class both our professor and the scientist that was walking us through the chemistry of cheese making were constantly talking how pasteurization was really good for us all and how annoying it was that it made cheese making more difficult because of the way it messed with casein and other proteins, making it so that the cheese wouldn’t “coagulate” correctly (they used a specific term that I cannot remember for the life of me, sorry) but that was all. A protein being bent up a bit doesn’t negatively affect the milk of where just drinking it or using it to bake, Ave even for cheese making there are tequiniques to still make it into cheese with pasteurized milk.
And I’m and American in Colombia where they pasteurize the milk to the point where it is stored at room temperature.
I’ve seen some shit claiming pasteurization is harmful and I just have to ask if the people who believe that know what pasteurization even is, because how the hell does boiling it make it harmful? Shit… If boiling milk makes it toxic, you better stay away from cheese. And a lot of baked goods. Creamy soups. Pasta dishes. Etc.
This is the whole “gluten is poison” (for people not actually intolerant to gluten) all over again. Those people also had no idea that it was just wheat protein.
Not even fully boiling. To quote Wikipedia, because I’m lazy:
The liquid moves in a controlled, continuous flow while subjected to temperatures of 71.5 °C (160 °F) to 74 °C (165 °F), for about 15 to 30 seconds, followed by rapid cooling to between 4 °C (39.2 °F) and 5.5 °C (42 °F).
Literally 30 seconds of “pretty hot”. And people are risking serious illness, even death, over some mythical beliefs about how nutrition works.
There is a way. Just mix it with equal parts hard liquor.
That sounds like a fun night
I heard bleach works good too.
So you get a liquid that’d roughly 20% alcohol and mostly milk?
Yeah that’s not gonna do it.
Try this:
Man, a shot of Vodka at 40% has me questioning my life choices, I cannot imagine taking a shot of this goddamn paint thinner holy shit
It would suck the water out of your mouth :)
Yeah, that’s why you mix it with raw milk.
Even if you do 95% everclear (which we don’t even have in the EU, we’d fucking kill ourselves with that shit), you’d still only get 47.5% alcohol with the rest being milk, which is not enough to sterilise it.
Like above 42% will kill a lot of stuff in it, but it’s not enough to sterilise it.
OK, but pasteurization doesn’t sterilize it either. Also, OP was making a joke…
Sure man, but I’m a pedant with a shit sense of humour and I like to point out myths that may or may not be actually relevant if it “came down to it.” And unlike in the movies where you just spray some whisky on a wound, alcohol isn’t a magical get-rid-of-all-chance-of-infection when it’s in levels of like <50%.
A lot of people take humor as fact, either by not understanding it as satire or by thinking it’s funny because it’s true etc. So while a bit of a party proper, I don’t think some light correction is all that harmful.
Food safety is communism!
Stop drinking milk not intended for you, problem solved. Go Vegan !
you’re saying that cows aren’t supposed to exist
nature doesn’t have intent
I greatly enjoy eating vegans. Very lean and easy to catch.
Nah
Fr. It tastes the same, barely taxing for the environment compared to cow milk (depending on the type of milk), plus you don’t torture animals. Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me
Your comment is great. Please keep speaking up for morals!
Appreciate you 🙏🏻❤️
The main thing for me is most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. It can be worth trying alternative milks just to see if you feel better with it.
They are weak, and can only be purified through the gas of adversity
Edit: flatulence
It occurred to me that the other phrasing could be problematic
milking cows isn’t torture, but I’m pretty sure humans have a bigger carbon footprint than cattle
Forceful impregnation, constant pregnancy, kicked and beaten calves and their mothers, separation of calves from the mother and their killing. Shall I go on?
artificial insemination isn’t torture. cows aren’t kept constantly pregnant. kicking and beating cows isn’t part of husbandry. killing cows at the end of their useful life is fine.
artificial insemination isn’t torture.
Doing so to a creature who can’t consent is pretty wack though.
cows aren’t kept constantly pregnant
Female mammals, including cows, produce milk as a result of pregnancy in order to feed their young. The dairy industry is for-profit, they’re not going to let their dairy cows have downtime from producing milk if there’s money to be made.
kicking and beating cows isn’t part of husbandry.
The meat and dairy industries have lobbied hard for ag-gag laws criminalizing photography on their farms after abuses have been discovered by undercover investigators and activists. It is undoubtedly a part of animal agriculture. Here’s a whole paper about it, if it interests you.
killing cows at the end of their useful life is fine.
It definitely isn’t the worse part of the miserable lives we make them live after breeding them in massive numbers. It’s probably a relief at that point.
Also, just a sidenote here, I scrolled a bit through your history and you seem to go on the defensive for meat and dairy whenever you come across anything relating to veganism or the negative impacts of those industries. You engage with vegan content much more than I do and I’m vegan! I don’t think I can change your mind about veganism, nor do I really feel the desire to write any more than I already have. But, I don’t know, maybe go comment on stuff you enjoy rather than getting riled up about this stuff? It might make for a more enjoyable experience on lemmy.
Thanks for writing this up. I just knew they would get all defensive so I didn’t even want to bother replying, but I’m very happy about other people chiming in. vegoon btw ❤️
you seem to go on the defensive for meat and dairy
your characterization is irrelevant to the truth of what I’ve said.
go comment on stuff you enjoy rather than getting riled up about this stuff
I don’t tell you what to do. kindly return the courtesy.
further, I’m not riled up but your screed indicates you might be.
The meat and dairy industries have lobbied hard for ag-gag laws criminalizing photography on their farms after abuses have been discovered by undercover investigators and activists.
and that’s bad
but it’s still not necessary to kick cattle for milk
Female mammals, including cows, produce milk as a result of pregnancy in order to feed their young.
they don’t have any volition in the matter. they produce milk. period. but they’re not constantly pregnant.
According to google, they need to birth one calf a year after a 9 month pregnancy, so they are pregnant 3/4 of their adult life, that sounds close enough to constant. Also, did you need to make 5 different comments?
Doing so to a creature who can’t consent is pretty wack though
it’s a veterinary procedure
I didn’t drink cow milk at all becsuse I find it gross but it definitely does but taste the same
It absolutely does not taste the same. Which works for me because I don’t like the taste of cow milk.
There are some brands that emulate the taste of cow milk for those who want that is what I meant. Obviously my view is skewed given that I’ve been vegan for like 4 years
What about milk intended for me? I mean, my mom may have trouble producing at her age, but…
Good news! As long as its given consentually then human milk is vegan!
Gross edit: some body builders buy it to bulk up!
the vegan society definition makes no mention of consent.
That could be! Despite that, a big part of minimizing harm is consent!
not necessarily
Correct!
I always am
Fellow lemming is so single they can’t get milk from their partner. UwU
I think my girlfriend would be weirded out if I asked her to take domperidone…
You can’t milk a blow-up doll…
Not with that attitude
ThE FlU Is JuSt A BaD CoLd! If BiRdS CaN TaKe It WhAtS yOuR PrObLeM sNoWfLaKeS?
And Trump isn’t even President yet. But I’m sure this is his fault, or Kennedy’s.
It’s not about “blaming” anything on anybody. Raw milk is one of the things RFK specifically promises to promote.
It looks like it’s State laws that govern whether raw milk sales is legal or not. In Colorado, Arkansas, Alabama, DC, Delaware, and many others it’s completely illegal.
What does the federal government have to do with it? It’s already illegal to transport it across state lines according to federal law.
It’s not that they caused it, it’s that they’re putting this forward as a healthier and better alternative to pasteurized milk, which leads to the connection with the news.
Well Fresno, CA is Republican, so you’re probably right, some kind of evil R plot to kill people.
Maybe ingest it and then use UV light or inject bleach. I hear Ivermectin helps against everything.
Ugh my wife’s step-sisters husband is a pharmacist. His body is riddled with tumors but he swears the ivermectin and supplements are what’s fighting the cancer. Not the chemo. Nope. That’s promoting the cancer.
Self solving problems are the best problems.
Agreed. I’m not to fond of him (or my wife’s step-sister, for that matter)…obviously I don’t want him to die, or be in pain…but I feel real bad for his kids (my step-niblings). They’re already at a tough age (middle school), their dad is dying, and they’ve all drunk the Kool aid. The whole side of the family has, save for maybe one or two of my half-BILs.
Last week, the mom (who runs an upscale clothing store) was saying she only wants to hire old white ladies and won’t hire kids anymore. The daughter pipes up saying “yeah kids these days are lazy, they don’t want to work”, parroting the parents talking points. But literally 30 seconds later, the mom is saying that it’s the slow season and she’s spending most of her day watching Netflix. The self-awareness is just completely missing.
For the other non scientists here is a good article explaining what “raw milk” is. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/dangers-raw-milk-arise-bacteria
You know it’s great to question why we do the things the way we do them, but question them and answer them logically
The problem is when they ignore the answer to keep asking the question waiting to hear what they want to hear.
Damn.
I didn’t have “Raw Milk encouraged by the US govt. causes second pandemic in 5 years” on my bingo card for 2025.I’m not ready for Moovid…
Or cowvid for that matter
I vote Cowvid, but I’m concerned about it being confused with videos of cows.
Better that than confused people watching videos of Joe Rogan or Trump or something, maybe there’s a natural deterrant against disinformation in the name by just getting people to watch cows all day long. Then again I’m sure people would start taking cow dewormer eventually.
I like to moovid, moovid.
I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank raw milk every day. I can remember my sisters bringing the milk pitcher to the barn and dipping into the bulk tank of raw milk every morning or so. No one got sick and no one died. We even made butter at home from it after separating the cream. But pasteurization is a good thing for all you urbane urbanites out there. It increases the shelf life and safety for consumption. Plus it reduces number of small dairies near population centers that used to exist. Dairies can be 100+ miles away now. After all, you wouldn’t want to be exposed to the smell of cow shit right?
Raw milk does taste very different from store bought pasteurized milk, (whole milk ain’t whole). And like shelf stable milk, I doubt anyone of you would like drinking it.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
LOL… the downvoting. I think as usual people read the first sentence and that’s it. So you saying “pasteurization is a good thing” got lost.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
But totally agree - raw milk, in the right situation and handled appropriately, which means COWS YOU KNOW is just so much better. To the point where after our one neighbor we’d get it from moved away I just stopped drinking milk at all.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING
Those are also cows you personally owned and cared for. You knew their health, you knew their living conditions, and the milk wasn’t produced soley (or maybe at all) for big corporate profits where production is the goal, and the animals well-being isn’t.
I’m sure other people would be more supportive if the sources could be trusted, but that’s difficult when you’ve seen how livestock is treated.
You do understand that ALL dairy farms that sell milk are regularly tested for safety of the milk they sell. This is federally mandated. You miss the thresholds for bacteria counts, you will be dumping all your milk produced until it tests clean again. So those cows can’t be held in very dirty and vile conditions because your milk won’t pass those mandated tests. Slackers go broke and are out of business in short order.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for selling pasteurized milk in stores. The milk you buy in the store can be a week old before you see it on the shelf. But the unreasoning fear of raw milk is just plain ridiculous.
They’re held in dirty and vile conditions, but they’re also pumped full of antibiotics.
You have owned a dairy herd?
Those inspections are carried out by federal inspectors. The incoming administration wants to severely cut funding for pretty much “the government” (except the military). That means fewer inspectorsand less thorough inspections. That’s how things like the Boar’s Head thing, and listeria outbreaks in spinach happen. They’re happening more and more because of industrial farming processes coupled with more relaxed federal inspections.
Boars Head had federally mandated inspections as well.
After surviving one pandemic, it’s totally fair that some of us are a bit wary of raw milk now because multiple places have found bird flu in it. Judging us in the way you are isn’t okay.
Judging us in the way you are isn’t okay.
But judging bluewing… totally ok?
More importantly: how are they judging again?
How was I judging? I was defending those of us who are concerned about the whole raw milk having bird flu thing. I was simply saying that those of us with concerns are valid in our feelings.
If you read all of bluewing’s comments, the tone comes off, imo, as talking down to those of us who are concerned. Bluewing grew up on a dairy drinking raw milk every day and didn’t get sick and seems to be exuding a sense of superiority because of it… I also grew up on raw milk and didn’t get sick from it. Doesn’t make me less concerned over bird flu lol
How was I judging?
If you read all of bluewing’s comments, the tone comes off, imo, as talking down to those of us who are concerned
And yet they specifically acknowledged the importance of pasteurization, etc, while simply saying in the right setting raw milk is tasty. That’s not judging that’s simply providing their perspective.
You are being overly sensitive and… IMO & LOL, “exuding a sense of superiority”. Don’t take it too seriously but I always find that basic hypocrisy - and I acknowledge we all do it - just so hilarious.
When I was a kid, we went to our neighbor who was a small milk farmer and got raw milk basically every day. Never got sick or anything.
Can confirm that raw milk does taste different, and to be honest sometimes I miss the taste when I drink pasteurized milk now
While I certainly don’t miss milking cows, I too miss the insanely rich texture and flavor of that fresh from the cow milk.
Warm, fresh from the cow, before the cream rose.
Surely this is satire. One of you guys made this as a joke, right? Right?!?
Is this why Mister Brain Worms wants to sell raw milk? So bird flu spreads since worms hate birds
Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave…
He is boiling in his grave. Probably milk.
Only for a few seconds. And he’s not even boiling. After that he’s fine.
rollingcurdling
