• Victor@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there’s no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.

    • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.

      It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.

      The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.

      • Victor@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries’ representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.

        Thank God I’m not in the USA. But it’s not like this doesn’t fuck over the rest of the world too.

      • LustyArgonian@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let’s not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.

      • Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 months ago

        If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.

        This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.

        I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done

      • Fillicia@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        there would not be many left to govern

        Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.

        It’s not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.

        • Victor@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician fucking president of a huge country

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.

        I’ve heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don’t succeed, because people don’t want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.

        So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 months ago

          I guess it didn’t work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?

          Seems pretty easy to avoid.

          And Bernie took his goddamn honeymoon in the USSR, I imagine they could have bugged every room he entered if they wanted to.

      • FierySpectre@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.

        Just in case to clarify, I’m not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it’s a dangerous concept.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.

          Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.

          I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.

          As an example, Trump didn’t get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.

          Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don’t fucking matter when real ones aren’t a hurdle to getting elected.

          • LustyArgonian@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Lol right? Let’s stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let’s stop silencing victims’ stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn’t matter anyway, it doesn’t hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I’m so fucking done with that line of speech now.

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 months ago

        Still at it… She lost, dude. Go away.

        Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.

        I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.

        • kreskin@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide

          You hoped, “we” didnt “recognize”. If Harris was going to end it she would have said so in the few days before the election. She proved pretty thoroughly that was never going to stop taking that AIPAC money.

        • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          This might come as a surprise, but the people opposing the genocide did not magically disappear. Almost like they were not a Russian troll farm but real people with morals and values.

        • Victor@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Pardon my ignorance as a non-American, but which out of the four was the option for (possibly) ending the genocide?

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.

        The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn’t.

        The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn’t.

        Trump is a creature of consequences.

  • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    If you voted for Harris I blame you for overlooking a fucking genocide.

    After all, trump supporters are “overlooking fascism” to punish the biden admin for the gaslighting over inflation.

    • Saryn@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      This level of ignorance and spite is obscene and absolutely terrifying. This person is basically willing to let the whole world burn in the name of preventing a genocide that obviously won’t be prevented but made even worse when the world starts burning. Out of spite.

      Absolutely terrifying.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Terrifying is voting for an anti-democratic party to “protect democracy”. Bunch of fucking sheep.

        What has the biden admin done for the past four years to “protect democracy” or “prevent fascism”?

        Absolutely fucking nothing. Keep voting every four years and then going back to brunch, liberal.

    • Psythik@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Palestine and Ukraine is absolutely fucked under Trump, and it’s your fucking fault for helping hand him the presidency. Think before you spew such ignorant bullshit next time.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Waaaah waaaah waaaah keep fucking crying. The DNC royally fucked up because they’re too busy circle jerking each other and sniffing their own farts than run an actual primary to protect the so called democracy they claim to care about but do nothing to protect.

    • MacAnus@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      Is Trump planning on helping Palestinians? It always seemed a strange argument to me to use against the Democrats since I’m pretty sure the right would have done the exact same in regards to Israel. Please prove me wrong, I’d love to see a silver lining to this situation.

      • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        Trump probably has more allegiance to Putin than he does to Netanyahu’s money, which might mean forcing it to compromise on a compromise. But frankly, I’ve always seen US support of Israel as a means to drive out Russian influence in Israel, whose cooperation has increased the last few decades before becoming clouded with the latest conflict. The conflict with Iran and its proxies might stop, but Palestinians are still getting genocided, if anything with more of a focus.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Are biden/Harris planning on helping the Palestinians when they continue to fund and arm israel in the genocide?

        They’re the same.

          • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I voted third party, the two parties are materially indifferent when it comes to their support of the working class or their bloodlust for war and supporting genocide.

            I don’t give a fuck that trumps gonna be president and I’m a visibly queer woman who’s been perceived and attacked for being “trans” under the Obama admin in a liberal state. I’ve been viciously assaulted for being visibly queer since I was a child in the 90s. The majority of these people don’t scare me. The only ones who actually scare me are the Christian nationalists who wanna turn this country into Christian Iran and the democrats haven’t done a single fucking thing in my entire life to stop them.

            • MacAnus@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              I hope you don’t come to regret this, I really do. I’m not from the US but I’m afraid of the consequences this election will have on the whole world.

              • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Why would I regret it? Fascism didn’t just pop up in 2015 when trump announced he was running, fascism has been here since we genocided the natives in our push for westward expansion. Hitler loved our history and wanted to learn from us!

                As a visibly queer person I’ve experienced the “fascism” liberals are freaking the fuck out about since I was a child under every single administration.

            • JargonWagon@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Glad voting third party accomplished so much. Now we have Trump in office. So much better than Harris! Now the U.S.A definitely won’t turn into a Christian Iran, as you put it. /s

              Would love it if third parties were viable, but we have a First Past the Post system, so unless that changes or we implement a tiered voting system starting at local governments and expanding out to a national level, a third party candidate will never be president.

    • redisdead@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      The whole genocide thing is funny because Trump won’t do anything about it either.

      The people who chose not to vote for Harris because of it are even bigger idiots than people who voted for Trump.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Translation: “I’m completely ok with a genocide as long as it’s not me being genocided”

          • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Look at biden/Harris, screeching about fascism and trump being the next hitler and then promising a peaceful transition of power.

            Liberals are a fucking joke. Back to brunch, coward.

              • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Biden and Harris have been going on for years now about how trump is a dangerous fascist and the second coming of Hitler. Now they lost the election, they’re promising the peaceful transition of power.

                Which is it? Is trump a dangerous fascist who needs to be defeated at all costs or was that just hyperbole to campaign on? Because if I were biden/Harris and I thought trump was the second coming of Hitler I wouldn’t be so easily and peacefully transitioning power.

                It’s hard to take the democrats seriously when it ends up being theatre on their end.

                • redisdead@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Trump won the election, what do you want Biden to do, stage a coup?

                  Y’all jill stains fanboys are something else.

  • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.

    If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.

    If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you’re dead to me. Friend, family, doesn’t matter.

    • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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      2 months ago

      I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.

      Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.

        • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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          2 months ago

          This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don’t have a social safety net.

          Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that’s a little less uh painful.

          • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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            2 months ago

            That’s something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don’t wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don’t want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.

      • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.

        Democrats have to stop and realize this. It’s why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don’t think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.

        • AWildMimicAppears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.

          If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don’t have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than “immigrants bad” or “Eggs expensive” - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.

          I think that’s what made Obama’s campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message “Change”.

    • glimse@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I wish I could say the same but I can’t bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.

      He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He’s let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone’s coming out of I’m within earshot… No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here’s a quote saying so from the 90s.

      I’ve thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.

      But what I think I’m going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.

      And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it’s bad whether he likes it or not.

      • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don’t regret it to this day. I don’t believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I’m not really willing to compromise certain morals.

        • CLOTHESPlN@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.

          • ohlaph@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I’m cutting them out completely. I can’t stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.

            This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don’t visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.

            From now on, if you’re a trump supporter or you “sat this one out”, I’m not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.

      • Raiderkev@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn’t have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he’d have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he’d have gone to the dark side. There’s a real chance I wouldn’t be talking to him right now if he did. I’m glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.

      • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.

        God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.

      • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
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        2 months ago

        I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.

        Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it’s really nothing for me to do so as well.

        • glimse@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?

          Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?

    • FatCrab@lemmy.one
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      2 months ago

      No. It is that Trump won with the support of over 70 million Americans. People are responsible for their choices. jfc

      Everyone saying Trumps totals didn’t change, yes, but their composition absolutely did change. But even that is besides the point. Even if they staged exactly the same, that’s still really fucking problematic and its absurd to give these people cover for being shitasses.

      • snooggums@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yeah, Dems should have been able to put a wet turd on the ticket and beat Trump. The people who voted for Trump are the actual problem.

        • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          Doesn’t your first statement imply that the dems flubbed an easy victory? Combined with the fact that Trump didn’t gain many voters? If the election was supposed to be that easy to win, isn’t it the dem campaign strat that is the problem? HEY WHITE WOMEN YOU LIKE LETHAL MILITARY?

          • snooggums@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I’m saying Dems did better than a wet turd, and a wet turd should have been enough.

            Anyone who chose to vote for Trump was the actual problem, whether they voted for him before or not. They chose violence.

            • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Well apparently not it wasnt enough. Either the wet turd wasn’t enough or they didn’t do better than one. Either way, you’re acting like a Democrat right now. “It’s the voters who are wrong!”

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        Trump didnt gain or loose many voters.

        Biden/Harris lost a lot of voters.

        So really the change between 2020 and 2024 is not a popularity increase for Trump, but a huge popularity loss for Biden/Harris.

        Now the question is, how did Biden/Harris manage to be so unpopular, that 12 million people decided to rather risk Trump winning, than vote for them again?

        • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Answer : Russian propaganda about Harris supporting a genocide, while blatantly dodging the question of trumps desire for Israel to “finish the job”.

          People are gonna get exactly what they voted for (or really, failed to vote against) in the next 4 years.

  • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    Okay, you’re better than them. Happy?

    They weren’t thinking about everything you’re thinking about. They’re just trying to buy eggs.

    • johker216@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      The problem is that they don’t know or care that eggs are expensive because of bird flu. They just want to justify their vote outside of the prejudices they don’t want to say out loud.

      • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        Sorry I mentioned eggs. I Just meant inflation.

        You’re just plain wrong to say everyone who voted for Trump did so out of racism, misogyny, or transphobia.

        I voted for Kamala, but I’m not in favor of everything she stands for. I didn’t want Trump. Does it mean I hate Palestinians that I voted for Kamala?

        • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          It doesn’t mean that you hate Palestinians. It just means that genocide wasn’t a deal-breaker for you.

          • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            Exactly! We have a TON of people here hating on Trump voters for a potential genocide (if he happens to follow through, and not be talking shit again), yet being perfectly ok with continuing the actual genocide killing boys and girls in Gaza.

            Because, the potential genocide is about them and not brown people.

  • Schwim Dandy@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    Having such a an ego that they think trumpians care about their or anyone’s judgement or opinion.

    • redisdead@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’m sorry but if you look at Trump and think ‘okay, I will give him my vote.’ then you are a dick bag and deserve to be treated as such.

      What the Dems do or don’t do is irrelevant.

  • LustyArgonian@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I judge you for your literal inability to detect hostility and scams.

    We have SO MUCH EVIDENCE that Trump is a Russian asset who Russia has Kompromat on (see American Kompromat by Unger). We are at war with Russia and previously were at war with them for decades. And we don’t think Putin wants revenge? Look at what happened to Navalny.

    Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts. Almost as if he’s a foreign fucking asset harming the US as much as possible in a proxy war. He has a history of violence, abuse, and grifting. How can people be so naive? Literal wolf in wolf’s clothing with neon signs saying “I’m a wolf and I will eat you.”

    • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Both 2024 and 2016 were total punts by the Democratic party, elections that could have easily been won in large margins, but defeat pulled from the jaws of victory in a way that seemingly only they can.

      People know if they live in battleground/swing states. And still, the fact is that despite Trump getting FEWER votes than last time (which is an election he LOST, by the way), he WON this time, simply because millions of blue voters in those key states decided they’d rather not vote at ALL, than vote for the Democrats’ candidate.

      There is no excuse for the results of either of these elections, honestly. It’s fucking embarrassing.

    • Rice_Daddy@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      An unusual counterpoint. The ‘krompomat’ the Russians wasn’t really proven, and at this stage I think if they threaten him with releasing whatever Trump can just go ‘LOL like I give a fuck. You seen the shit I did to their face? They still voted for me!’

      • LustyArgonian@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Unger’s book is extensive and quite established. He is a journalist.

        And all narcissists care about is their ego. He gives so many fucks.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 months ago

      Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts.

      See that’s the problem. “Experts” is a bad word to people like this because it makes them feel stupid in and inferior.

      That is their problem, of course, but they have made it all our problem.

    • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      It’s day four of Trump being in office and I’ve already been ghosted by dozens of people for the crime of not voting. Because, you know, immigrants who can’t vote are expected to vote too.

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Trump isn’t in office until he’s sworn in mid January.

        Also simultaneously LOL and I’m really sorry. Those people are not only stupid but not your friends.

              • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Reading comprehension is hard. I’m a US citizen, the original comment I replied to is that of an immigrant who can’t legally vote.

            • redisdead@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Idk what’s worse: not voting and making your voice useless out of apathy or laziness, or voting third party and making sure your voice means nothing on purpose.

              • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                The whole point of a democracy is people speak their minds, is it not?

                If you vote third party, your vote is an extension of your true self. If you vote for a potential winner just out of the likeliness they’ll win, is that really “you”?

                Same logic if you don’t vote. In Australia, voting is a requirement for all citizens, and it’s disastrous because you end up with people who just don’t care filling up some random candidate’s score, so the outcome doesn’t reflect what people actually want.

                • redisdead@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  If you vote third party, your vote is an extension of your true self.

                  Your true self is a waste of time.

          • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Sorry, that’s really hard. I went through a bad friend break up recently that had nothing to do with politics and it sucks ass.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 months ago

      We shouldn’t blame Trump voters for the results of their vote? Why not?

      Voters (and people who chose not to vote) are to blame. Fuck off.

          • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            “Its everyone else’s fault but my own that I chose the misogynistic racist.”

            It wouldn’t have mattered what the dems did. Trump offered the most concessions to the ultra wealthy. Just like when the Democrats win, thats what decides it.

            • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I voted third party. Go on and cry about it liberal.

              You’re not pushing your candidate to the left after being out to brunch for the past four years and overlooking a genocide, you’re being pulled right and you think you’re “protecting democracy” by voting for a candidate that not a single vote went to in a primary, and “preventing fascism” by funding the israelis in their genocide.

              • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Unless you’re a literal armed radical, you’d be considered just another kind of liberal too.

                Did you vote for a misogynistic racist? I thought you’d voted third party and not trump? You seem to have a guilty conscience.

                • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I voted third party. I didn’t vote for the piece of shit orange buffoon, but it’s really telling that the DNC lost this fucking badly to him. They’re not incompetent, no no, the voters are evil scum of the earth!

            • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              They did not. Less people voted for Trump than before. There are statistically less racists and mysoginists than before. You should be happy right?

  • BigBenis@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I certainly do judge any Trump voter as being either terribly naive or a truly bad person. However, broadcasting that message is going to change nothing and only serves as copium for the anti-Trump crowd.

    What is going to sway people who have voted for Trump in the past and are not completely lost to the cult of personality is being a champion for radical change that benefits the middle class. The Harris platform evidently did not go far enough to convince enough voters they would see any meaningful change. Nor did the Clinton or Biden platforms, Biden was only lucky enough that his policies were effectively irrelevant in contest with Trump’s disastrous mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic response.

    We can’t hope for another deadly crisis to get us out of this one.

    • Montagge@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      If champion for radical change that benefits the middle class was that important Trump would not have won.

      • BigBenis@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I would argue that he most definitely is a champion for radical change and that’s why he won. “Drain the swamp”, “Dictator on day one”, " He says it like it is" are all things that deviate dramatically from the status quo of political etiquette. Trump is willing to break political norms to get what he wants and evidently voters think his interests align with their own.

        Obviously, this isn’t the kind of radical change you or I are hoping for but it certainly is radical. Meanwhile, the Dems are playing it safe in an attempt to appeal broadly and not upset too many people. And we’ve seen for the last decade that gets us at best legislation which has been gutted to the point where it does effectively nothing for the majority of Americans.

        • Montagge@lemmy.zip
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          2 months ago

          Student loan forgiveness, ACA, CHIPS act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Bipartisan Infrastructure were all huge gains for the majority of Americans

          • BigBenis@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Most of these accomplishments, while they do benefit the middle class, are largely invisible to the average American who’s not perpetually following politics.

            Student loan forgiveness only directly affects people who go to college, an increasingly less popular/accessible career path amongst the working class. It also has restrictions and has been facing legal challenges, both of which limit its effectiveness.

            Lower prescription drug costs are only really visible to people who are taking prescription drugs long-term and doesn’t prevent the healthcare system from bankrupting you in countless other ways.

            The Affordable Care Act is arguably the single most significant accomplishment for the Democratic party in my millennial lifetime and if it survives to the next election cycle it will be old enough to vote in it.

            As for the rest, improving infrastructure moves too slowly for people to notice in the short-term and despite the efforts to slow them we are still facing record increases to the cost of living and job insecurity.

            The working class is getting desperate, people are worried about how they’re going to keep up with rising grocery prices or whether they’ll get laid off from their job when they’re living paycheck to paycheck. If you don’t own a home yet you’re likely questioning whether homeownership will ever be within reach while your landlord increases your rent for no apparent reason other than greed.

            In a relative sense to the struggles the working class has been facing coming out of the pandemic, the Democrats have thrown them bones, told them the economy is great, in fact it’s the best in the world when you know for a fact you were better off before the pandemic.

            Do we know tariffs and mass deportations aren’t going to make anything better? Do we know things are likely to get a lot worse? Are we the average American? The results of the election prove that we aren’t.

  • wander1236@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    Unfortunately I don’t think most of these people care about being judged, especially not by some future people who they’ll never meet.

    As long as they see benefits in the short term, they’re happy, and if the benefits don’t materialize or go away too quickly, then it’s The Other Side’s fault somehow.