I wish I could say the same but I can’t bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He’s let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone’s coming out of I’m within earshot… No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here’s a quote saying so from the 90s.
I’ve thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I’m going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it’s bad whether he likes it or not.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn’t have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he’d have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he’d have gone to the dark side. There’s a real chance I wouldn’t be talking to him right now if he did. I’m glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don’t regret it to this day. I don’t believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I’m not really willing to compromise certain morals.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it’s really nothing for me to do so as well.
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don’t have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that’s a little less uh painful.
That’s something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don’t wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don’t want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It’s why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don’t think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don’t have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than “immigrants bad” or “Eggs expensive” - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that’s what made Obama’s campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message “Change”.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you’re dead to me. Friend, family, doesn’t matter.
That’s fair…
I wish I could say the same but I can’t bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He’s let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone’s coming out of I’m within earshot… No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here’s a quote saying so from the 90s.
I’ve thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I’m going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it’s bad whether he likes it or not.
Your poor father. You sound insufferable.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn’t have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he’d have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he’d have gone to the dark side. There’s a real chance I wouldn’t be talking to him right now if he did. I’m glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don’t regret it to this day. I don’t believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I’m not really willing to compromise certain morals.
This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.
I’m cutting them out completely. I can’t stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.
This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don’t visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.
From now on, if you’re a trump supporter or you “sat this one out”, I’m not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it’s really nothing for me to do so as well.
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
What made you change your mind?
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don’t have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that’s a little less uh painful.
That’s something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don’t wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don’t want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It’s why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don’t think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don’t have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than “immigrants bad” or “Eggs expensive” - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that’s what made Obama’s campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message “Change”.