The Duff CEO with a Windows-Logo on his forehead: “Gamers use Windows because of its’ user experience not our de facto monopoly.”
Next Image: Duff CEO with Windows-Logo in front of a “Out of Business” sign. Subtitle: “30 minutes after SteamOS is released”
Edit: Yo, I’m not saying this is gonna happen. I just want to say that Windew’s UX sucks ass.
Linux is already there, a new distro coming out isn’t going to do anything
I guess we’ll see just how powerful branding really is.
I probably will be giving Linux a shot this year, at the very least attempt a dual boot.
I have used linux for about two years for gaming and it works for well most games but there is always a game that doesn’t work right too, not to dissuade you from giving it a try. Just want to tell you my experience. I’d say 95% of games I’ve tried work in a basic sense. But sometimes a certain game just runs like crap or I have to fiddle getting a game to work with using lutris . Some games just can’t work because of anti-cheat services. Etc… I’ve tried various OS and really enjoy POP_OS as well as good ole fedora. So, dual boot is recommended if you can do it. Ultimately, I’ve sadly moved back to windows just because I got tired of always having to troubleshoot stuff to the point of not wanting my computer to be a hobby. I love linux and want it to be my only OS but for me its just not quite there for no fuss gaming setup. I’m a parent and dont want my fleeting moments of free time to be troubleshooting while something isn’t working.
I choose the games i buy based on the protondb ranking. Most unsupported games are those with kernel level anti cheat which i wouldn install on any system anyway. My bazzite gaming PC is absolutly hassle free, for my masochism i have Arch on my Notebook :D
Makes sense that linux doesn’t quite fit the no fuss gaming setup, but I’m curious, would you say Windows fits the no fuss gaming setup today?
Part of what drove me away was my infrequent gaming on Windows led to everytime I went to play games having windows demanding updates that would be end with spamming me about Microsoft products I’ve declined 1000 times before. Then updates to the games themselves. It was slowly turning me into a console gamer as I felt the only low/no fuss environment for gaming was a PS5.
Linux definitely requires the time/energy to keep things playing smoothly, but IMO so does Windows, just in very unproductive ways.
I think you answered your own question.
Linux definitely requires the time/energy to keep things playing smoothly,
Windows, overall just has less time/energy to keep things playing smoothly. Running a good debloat helps some. Honestly, what through me over the edge was with poe2, on linux it just stuttered and lagged. I even went from POP_OS to Fedora, same issues. Came over to windows and it runs nice and smooth. Its just I’ve went through situations like that enough to say thats enough… I can’t keep doing this.
You can boot from a USB stick too, which means you can check out this or that linux, without any kind of modification to your system.
For anyone with two feet, dual boot instead of a single boot is highly recommended
Yarr, but what if we be having one?
Y’all have no idea how true this is. I just finished building my OC and installed CachyOS (Arch derivative). Got Steam running incredibly easily. I can play both Deep Rock Galactic and Helldivers 2 online multiplayer. The only tweak I needed to do was use a different version of Proton for Helldivers 2 (which would’ve been the default one, but Cachy has its own Cachy one).
I don’t know when the last time y’all have tried to play games on Linux is, but it is genuinely trivial. Even Nvidia drivers are easy now.
Even Nvidia drivers are easy now.
What about VRR and HDR support?
If VRR is VR I don’t use VR so I don’t know, and my monitor doesn’t support HDR.
VRR is Variable Refresh Rate. Its a nice feature that let’s GPUs talk to compatible monitors so that you dont get duplicate, wasted, or torn frames. The monitor adjusts its frame rate to the GPU and the GPU doesn’t render more than the monitor can handle.
I just installed mint on a little gaming PC connected to my TV. Set it up to boot straight to steam with big screen mode. The only thing that is a small chore was installing xpadneo for my controller and downloading many many gigs of games into it.
I’m glad gaming has come so far but it still fuckin sucks. Waiting hours for shders to compile, all the bandwidth used to download those shaders. Then the game still runs like shit compared to windows.
Don’t get me wrong. I still only use Linux and have for like 8 years. But that doesn’t mean it’s not shite. But I don’t really game like I used to. My main issue is applications like Adobe and CAD software. We need that to support Linux
Have you been playing the dead space remake? FreeCAD just made a big leap BTW (to be fair I was happy enough using it before, but I understand people’s complaints)
Hey so im not sure if this applies to you but ive been told to skip the shaders compile and it works just fine. I found that to be true for linux mint with steam. Apparently its not really doing anything? I could be wrong.
If you are talking about the dialog box that comes up before a game loads in steam.
Ye. Sometimes it works if I skip but some games stutter like crazy without it
I have subpar performance in some games but i dont think any steam games. Ill pay attention next time and maybe compile if its not working well. Honestly wasnt sure if it was an nvidia driver thing, proton thing, or apparently a shader thing lol
Most people just use what’s in front of them. Apple takes on exorbitant costs to make sure marginalized people are the face of iphone. Microsoft takes on exorbitant costs to be the face of our soul crushing tech capitalism. What can linux represent and how can we leverage that to our advantage while taking down apple and Microsoft.
Apple takes on exorbitant costs to make sure marginalized people are the face of iphone.
What the hell are you talking about?
If you know, you know.
Conservative parody account based on the username. What the parody is remains to be seen
It’s actually just there to scare aware people like yourself. Kinda like a scarecrow.
Linux represents those that are free
Year of the Linux
DesktopHandheldI’ve considered Windows a toy OS for decades because the only use case anyone can legitimately make for needing to use it is to play games.
Among consumers, sure. But they also have put decades of effort into understanding how business buy and pay for software and computers.
Oddly enough, the rise of software as a service I think has led to Linux being a more viable option for business use. For my work, I’d still be personally missing MS Excel but that’s because I hate LibreOffice Calc with a passion. I cannot understand some of their keybindings which are not changeable. But so much of what I use these days is just in web browsers.
Yeah, it’s true. I don’t think that’s by accident either. The “evil” in Google’s “Don’t be evil” motto was at least somewhat inspired by Microsoft. Now, you can argue about how evil Google has become, but even very early on they saw Microsoft as a prime adversary. That meant not tying themselves to Windows in any way, and it also meant building a lot of capabilities into Chrome that made it so that people weren’t tied to Windows. That has opened the door to SAAS being a thing that happens in the browser, and not in GUIs written in Visual Basic, or something that is tied to the MS platform, which means you’re more and more able to do your normal work on Linux.
I am able to run Linux in a M365 company, and whether Google or Microsoft had more influence on the current state of things, it IS nice that the whole suite works great right there in Firefox.
Member when instant messaging, email, and cloud file storage didn’t need to be deeply integrated into the OS? I member.
I think one reason I really like Lemmy / Mastodon is that they remind me of the days when people ran their own IRC servers, and/or Jabber servers and when that was a normal and standard way to communicate.
Cries in professional CAD-Software-User-Noises
Honestly Onshape is great and works in browser
Some of my customers would skin me alive knowing that I upload their Data to some online CAD Service… sorry.
I like FreeCad
I wish I would. I feel like my dependency on windows holds me down professionally.
Ah, there’s Adobe and maybe some 3D modelling software
Adobe is sadly huge for design professionals. Also fuck Adobe
Autodesk is huge as well. Also fuck Autodesk
Yes and also yes
I was looking at Ubuntu studio which can work with adobe filetype, but i wouldn’t switch unless i had a backup machine with adobe software just in case.
Fact. I only still use it because of game compatibility.
Its the only os with functional cad as well. Freecad is a user hating joke.
I’ve used several CAD solutions as a toolmaker. And tested even more. All Windows only. I wear the sackcloth and ashes of FreeCAD at home because
1: It’s free and I don’t need to buy a subscription. Billed monthly or annually-- your choice. I can use FreeCAD as I see fit.
-
It does NOT require me to store my data in the cloud. I have worked on things that were trade secrets.
-
If my internet connection goes down I can’t access my work with the full ability to manipulate it.
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I absolutely detest the clown car UX that is Fusion 360. I don’t want to click an icon and get a dropdown menu that’s a dozen entries long, then click one of those and getting a submenu that’s ANOTHER 6 entries deep. Ain’t nobody got time for that shit.
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Learning difficult things does not scare me.
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Why do steam users act like their game company and their billionaire is somehow their friend?
It’s windows derangement syndrome, sadly afflicts many on the lemmyverse
Am I missing something? The meme says “Windows bad” not “Valve is our friend.”
I don’t need Steam to win, I want windows to lose.
Because it’s a Linux distribution. They’re forced to be our friends because of a brilliant legal tactic that has been working marvelously. For Steam itself we have to trust a billionaire pinky promise that he won’t enshittify. But if Linux becomes a major gaming platform, it could be a major turning point for free software adoption in general.
This is definitely a rising tides affect all boats thing or whatever the phrase is (that might be a bad thing, idk). I definitely chalk up how great it is now to SteamOS.
So steam has had 20 years to enshitify, in that time they have always remained a privately held company and have made choices to ensure long term growth. I imagine at some point (like after gaben hands over control) they could go public and obtain their very own collection of worthless bloodsucking vampires, but i imagine that would be quite awhile, and hopefully by then they will have removed windows death grip from gamers throats.
Enshittifying is usually the process of monetizing a platform that is running at a loss to build a user base. Steam is not running at a loss, they are making a killing as is.
Thats not always the reason why a platform monetizes poorly, thats the most common reason, but there is always room for people to get greedy and begin demanding short term profits, being privatly held is a decent barrier to this process though.
Yes capitalism is a shit garbage system, steam got lucky and started their platform before others noticed the market would exist and could grow organically. The root of enshittification is that is how the game is played today; a few companies all have to operate at losses in a game of “investment capital runway chicken” to attempt to become a monopoly and then rug pull their user base to monetize.
Can you imagine a world where governments gave 2 shits about their people, identified this as a losing game plan for the world, and came up with some form of legislation against this kind of market nonsense. Fuck it would be awesome to see real businesses growing naturally off of success, and not synthetically off of capital. Yes I realize that wont happen. God damnit i fucking hate unregulated capitalism.
I don’t, its just valve demolishes apple and microsoft in the “don’t be hostile to your users” category
I’m not but they have done a lot to make gaming on Linux more viable.
Happy cake day!
Because monopolies are good when it’s one that I like!
I wouldn’t say monopolies are good, but there’s a difference between monopolies existing because the one at the top is actively preventing others from offering the same services, versus the monopoly existing because no one else is capable/willing to doing it. How do you resolve the latter without forcing them to offer a worse service?
It’s not a monopoly and it’s certainly one of the best services out there so if GabeN has a spot in the line, it’s at the back of it.
If Steam isn’t a monopoly because the Epic Games store and GoG exists, then Windows isn’t a monopoly because Mac and Linux exist.
Look, I like Valve. They are better than the vast majority of big game companies out there. They aren’t perfect, though, and they definitely have a monopoly on online PC game distribution. We shouldn’t be blind to that.
Every time I say stuff like this it’s like 50/50 if people downvote or not.
There are people using Windows who would very much rather not use Windows but need to because it is the only way to use given software. I haven’t heard of anyone who would very much rather not use Steam but has to in order to access a given game.
In this regard Windows has more in common with Epic and their paid exclusives than Steam.
There are also people using Steam who would very much rather not use Steam but need to because it is the only way to use given software. So many Steam exclusives.
I remember a time when I wanted to play Portal and the only thing in the physical box was a code and a Steam installer.
Just because it is a monopoly you like doesn’t mean it isn’t a monopoly.
I remember a time when I wanted to play Portal and the only thing in the physical box was a code and a Steam installer.
Your argument that Steam is a monopoly involves you purchasing a game from somewhere other than Steam?
Yes, buying from somewhere else and still being forced to install Steam just to be able to play it.
Which still doesn’t disprove the monopoly claim. Steam can be a monopoly even if people like to use it. Valve could very well change in the future. We can hope for the best, but we’re basing a lot on the continued goodwill of a single company.
Steam is a “monopoly” because some devs don’t bother selling their games on other stores. If they wanted to make their games available on other stores tomorrow they could do so very easily.
Windows is a “monopoly” because certain software is not compatible with other OSs, if the devs wanted to make them available on other OSs tomorrow that would be very difficult.
Epic is a “monopoly” because they are legally binding devs to not make their games available on other stores. If they wanted to make their games available in other stores tomorrow they are legally not allowed to do so.
Which is to say if Valve changes in the future and becomes shit companies and users can easily leave for other platforms.
Steam is a monopoly because if devs try to sell on other stores, they will make less money. It’s a feedback loop. We buy games on Steam because all the games are there, and devs put games on Steam because all the customers are there.
Epic actually tried to get around this by offering very lucrative exclusivity deals to devs. That still didn’t work.
What kind of apostrophe use is
its’
?!
That’s how I learned to use the posessive pronoun of “it”.
“it’s” always means either “it is” or “it has”.
“its” implies possession.
In general, apostrophe is used for:
- Contractions (don’t, won’t, she’s)
- Possession (John’s book, the dog’s bone)
- Plural possession (dogs’ bones, teachers’ lounge)
Never use apostrophes for regular plurals
(he has so many pencil’s)Unfortunately, the rules for apostrophes in English are made up for each individual word. Lots of native speakers get it wrong, and I don’t know how non-native speakers could possibly keep it all straight.
So… am I wrong?
Yes. It should be “its”.
Possessive it is “its”
It’s = it is
English s weird
Great meme though!
That I believe is only for plurals, such as:
(one) cat’s paw vs (multiple) cats’ paws
It, however, is not a plural, otherwise it would be “they”. Though I must admit I’ve probably made the same mistake myself.
I don’t really understand this buzz about Steam OS displacing Windows.
Windows is a general purpose computer OS; whereas Steam OS is a game-platform OS designed for the Steam Deck and similar devices. It doesn’t seem to be the same use case. Obviously Steam OS could be used as a general purpose OS, if you just switch modes and install this and that software… but then what are you waiting for? There are already heaps of high quality general purpose Linux OSs already designed for that purpose. Linux Mint is a drop-in replacement for Windows, and has no problems whatsoever with games.
I mean, if you want to use Steam OS on your main computer, then that’s fine - but I just don’t really see a reason to use that rather than something that is already available, and already a desktop OS rather than a console OS.
It’s the OEM effect behind it. If Valve offers it as an OS anyone can use (which they are trialing by giving it to ASUS), then it is more likely for both users and OEMs to trust it as a platform, meaning devs would be incentivized to support it and users would be more likely to switch off windows.
I could be wrong, but I think what they really want is for a PC OEM to pick up SteamOS so that it markets to the general audience. They’re beta testing it in the handheld market because of the steam deck’s success.
If people get to use it truly out of box, the market for it will grow.
As of now, most Linux users are here because they have a knack for tech and trying things. Most computer users are not like this and will cling to even subpar experience because its familiar.
Windows can keep kneecapping itself all day, but linux desktop will only expand rapidly if both companies and users see immediate value (it’s always been there, but hard to convince).
A large amount of non-gaming work that people do on PCs these days is inside a web browser. A chromebook would do fine. In fact, a lot of IT departments prefer it because it’s a locked down environment by default.
Maybe some people only use their computers to play games? I don’t know. I’ve been wondering as well. Pretty much any modern distribution works fine.
Don’t make me tap the post title.
I mean just saying it’s optimistic is insufficient. “Fever dream fantasy” is closer.
You do understand what the joke is about, do you?
Why don’t you explain the joke and we’ll see
That Window’s UX is shit and no one uses Windows for its’ UX?
Oh… Is that funny? Ok
Still beats gnome, lol, tee hee, jajaja
Ok. Yes. I guess this wasn’t quite the right place for me to post my piece.
Unfortunately the biggest issue now is the anticheats that only function on windows. My friends refuse to switch to Linux because you cannot play:
- fortnite
- league of legends
- escape from tarkov
- battlefield
- apex legends
- valorant
- R6 siege
- GTA 5
- Rust
- Destiny 2 Etc
They’ll play other games but because they mainline one of these they refuse to leave. As long as SteamOS has no answer to these anti cheats windows will maintain a dominance.
Source: https://areweanticheatyet.com/
Technically, all the major anti cheats have Linux userspace binaries that even support wine/proton passthrough, so there are actually a lot of anti cheat games that run on linux as shown in the list.
The issue is not entirely something SteamOS can solve or is even linux’s fault because no sane distro would ever support running a kernel level anticheat module. It would break the defining security features of linux, and I’m not even sure DKMS or Akmod would support it out of box on secure boot.
The games in question refuse to enable anticheat on linux because they know the userspace binaries are limited, but then their windows solution is just a crappy rootkit. It’s not a very good or longterm solution either. EAC and Battleye both have demonstrable bypasses with various methods of fooling. Only Vangaurd seems to aggressively keep up with the arms race by literally scanning your PCIe devices for hardware cheats.
What they can do is to convince game OEMs to enable their linux AC support by marketing the potential customers they are losing out on. That’s basically what happened with Halo MCC and Infinite. I’m still surprised they actually convinced Microsoft to allow both games to run on Linux with EAC.
I am an idiot, so this is probably a dumb question, but it sounds like you might be able to shine some light.
Why could we not run kernel level anticheat in a sandbox? Does kernel level inherently mean a sandbox cannot contain it?
As an aside is kernel level anticheat required for anti-cheat to function? Or are the developers of anti-cheat software just doing kernel level because its easier?
Why could we not run kernel level anticheat in a sandbox? Does kernel level inherently mean a sandbox cannot contain it?
The linux kernel actually does have several sandboxing paradigms and techniques, but by the definition of anti cheat means that it cannot be sandboxed.
The anticheat essentially scans the entire system memory, filesystem, and loaded kernel modules to ensure the userspace software is not being tampered with. It would be impossible to do that in a sandbox, hence it breaks all the security standards linux has for kernel modules (ex: why would a wireless driver need to access a printer module?).
Even for windows, kernel level solutions are not very well suited to be running there. The recent crowdstrike outage is a notable example, because it did essentially the same thing but then a bad update bluescreened every machine because giving a kernel module complete access is almost like modifying the kernel itself.
As an aside is kernel level anticheat required for anti-cheat to function? Or are the developers of anti-cheat software just doing kernel level because its easier?
It’s not required to function, but kernel level anticheat is just harder to bypass (still doable). They’re choosing kernel level because it’s cheaper to slap on a 3rd party AC than to make effective server-side software and pay for server moderation. Even Valve is hesitant with their VAC 3 system, even though it has been a major upgrade, it still requires manual moderating.
The thing is, most devs have finally realized kernel level anticheat still isn’t an effective solution, so they have been fine with the userspace anticheat on linux and opting for server side stuff. It’s just these last few holdouts that refuse to budge because they don’t value the linux market (yet).
Thank you for the insightful response! Its sad that the cheapest option is the only choice ever chosen, sounds like we could create jobs and foster better security choices simultaneously here (and probably end up with a better online experience to boot).
Fuck kernel-level anticheat.
I refuse to buy or play any games with Kernel Anti-cheat.
And I will die on that hill.
If it doesn’t run on Linux because of intrusive anti-cheats you probably shouldn’t install it anyway.
And it’s maddening that people will fight to open backdoors to Linux instead of fighting the companies from pulling that shit.
Congratulations? How does that help Linux adoption, though.
We don’t need spy backdoors in Linux, keep that shit in Windows.
Adoption does not include bad things.
Yes, it does. Whoever wants to install the “spy backdoors” should be able to. It’s called freedom. Look it up.
You can break it yourself if you compile your own kernel. I do, btw.
No need to support it for the general public.
No need to support it for the general public
Unless the general public wants to play a game that requires it. You’re living in your own world.
Stop giving companies excuses to do outrageous shit.
Like it’s absolutely mindboggling how much shit do people eat in order to play a game. Kernel level anticheat has access to your entire computer, and you can’t even know what it does.
And for absolutely no benefit at all. You can make anticheats on server, or simple client stuff without reading your entire memory.
Well if they are losing out on sales due to practices that are incompatible with Linux then companies are less likely to use those practices in the future.
Remember back when people said nothing was wrong with Linux gaming and it was actually game studios that had to start developing for Linux so the studios changed their practices and started developing native Linux games? Yeah, me neither.
Because people were still buying the games on Windows. If people start actively not buying things then it encourages change. If people complain but still buy it anyway then nothing will change. Vote with your wallet (which is what OP is doing).
Voting with your wallet doesn’t work when you’re 3% of the 3%. It didn’t work to get games on Linux and it won’t work to get rid of kernel anticheat. Wanna know what works? Making things work. Like Valve did with Proton while people like OP were voting with their wallet.
So what is your problem with what OP is doing? That they aren’t personally releasing games to compete with the ones using kernel level anti-cheat?
Like Valve did with Proton while people like OP were voting with their wallet.
Do you think that was profitable for Steam (from people voting with their wallet), or do you think Steam did it for charity out of the kindness of their hearts?
They literally care about market share and money watch the magical adoption of server stuff anti chest if Linux takes off
I’m sure it’s on the roadmap, but not a current priority. First get it to work decently and iron all the kinks out of steamos, then they can look at anti-cheating.
Don’t make me tap the post title.
“Who here wants a bathtub Mint distro?”
Finally a comment that I expect from a simpsons shitpost community. Here’s your reward: A scented candle!
Requisite “you don’t need to wait for SteamOS” post.
Gamed on Linux for over 2 years. The time is now. Shit just works (mostly).
Shit just works (mostly).
That’s the “damning with faint praise” that has been the bane of Linux since slackware came on 500 floppies.
Sometimes that “mostly” is just “oh, you have to do this simple thing that is in a FAQ once and then you’re golden”. Other times it’s “oh, that hardware isn’t supported, so I guess you don’t have a usable video card”.
I think what many of us are hoping with when it comes to SteamOS is that a few of the remaining really sharp edges get sanded off. And, just maybe, there will be a tipping point where the smoother the experience, the more people use it, and the more people use it, the smoother the experience will be.
Bro I had to spend 4 hours on forums trying to figure out why Windows won’t reboot into BIOS. It’s linked to the Fast Start option that won’t turn off without rebooting into BIOS.
Frankly I just shouldn’t have put the mostly. I’ve literally had one issue in the last year. Point is: just try it.
What distro do you recommend if it’s a machine mostly used for gaming?
I’ve primarily been using PopOS, which has been fantastically stable and very easy. I have an all AMD system, but my understanding is that the nvidia version of Pop also makes some of the nvidia driver stuff a lot easier.
I also play on Arch sometimes, but realistically you probably don’t want bleeding edge stuff if the point is just making sure games work. That’s where the relative stability of something like Pop / Mint / even just pure Debian comes into play.
Same experience here. People waiting for steamos don’t know most good distros work how they think steamos is gonna. Games with kernel level anti cheat that are worth playing are few and far between. And fuck their communities for not rioting when their fellow members get removed from the game for no reason.
My whole family largely uses Linux as our daily driver - ages - 40, 38, 18, 9, 7
The only one not running Linux is my 38 year old wife.
HOWEVER - my 9 year old got an occulus for Xmas, and suddenly we are dual booting and that’s a real shame.
you can often get better performance on the same games with the same hardware.
Because there’s a reason why Linux does not randomly use the disk like Windows does
Back when I was still on an HDD the difference between NTFS and ext4 was night and day.
I remember having the need to defragment my drive on windows every few months, or Batman Arkham Asylum would actually start to lag and stutter trying to load textures.
Meanwhile World of Warships, another texture heavy game, would load significantly faster when I tried it on Linux because surprise surpsise, ext4 doesn’t fragment until your disk is nearly full.
Windows honestly gg ez’d it’s way out of making a newer FS with the advent of SSDs, but there was a period of time where upgrading to Windows 8 would blow up your drive usage to 100% the entire time the PC was on.
NTFS is imo even worse than exFAT because at least exFAT didn’t eat your disk alive
I mean no because even if all of the gamers in the world instantaneously switched away from windows, everybody else in the world - specifically the masses of idiots out there and businesses, not that there’s that much difference - would still keep on using Windows because they don’t give a fuck.
If SteamOS is ever launched for non-valve hardware, I would probably stop whatever I’m doing at work to get it installed
Copying my own comment from yesterday:
There was a comment thread in one of the Linux communities the other day talking about this mindset. Obviously the comments got a bit rude and unconstructive, but the point is that you can switch to something like bazzite now and most things will work pretty well, but if you’re holding out until it’s perfect then you’ll be waiting forever!
Awesome thank you I’ll check it out
It probably won’t be trivial but this is Lemmy, if you’re stuck there are hundreds of Linux nerds itching to help!
It was already launched for non-Valve hardware. Not for any hardware though, just a Lenovo handheld.
My old desktop has been demoted to console, and some time before Windows 10 goes EOL, I’m planning to try Bazzite on it. Seems like the closest we’ll get to SteamOS on any hardware in the near future.
