If anyone can find more pixels for me i would appreciate it.
Thanks y’all.
Out here in the you guys zone making yall happen. 10 years and you guys will be nearly gone cause people get tired of having to ubsubltly tack on “and gals” or “gals and nonbinary pals”.
What?
I thought y’all was just a gender neutral term combining you and all.
How would it be wrong or offensive to refer to refer to trans person as “y’all”? Genuine question.
How would it be wrong or offensive to refer to refer to trans person as “y’all”?
“Y’all not welcome in these parts”
You got me there.
As a non-english speaker, I appreciate «Y’all» 'cause it always bug me the absence of a way to reference more than one individual in English.
What you mean «You» is used to reference both one person and a crowd? English is fuck up.
“y’all” fills a legitimately useful gap the English language has. Other languages have a word like this.
Edit: also something cool I just found out, some languages have a way to disinguish “we” (you and I), and “we” (me and the rest of us, not you). It’s called clusivity and is missing from European languages. Many indigenous languages of the Americas and Oceania have this, as well as Vietnamese and northern dialects of Mandarin.
Not a gap in every dialect! “Ye” is another plural second person used in Ireland
Hear y’all hear y’all, Reggie King from o’er the holler brought pawpaw moonshine for the weddin’
Every dialect has a word for it. There’s no gap.
And youse in Dublin.
The worst is when a language formally has a disambiguating word but then speakers all just decide to not use it.
There is also “you lot”
Any examples of an equivalent in other languages?
I speak a small amount of French but can’t think of one
“Vous” is the first one that comes to mind in french. But since it is also a more formal (and/or “respectful”) version of “tu/toi”, it can both designate a group of people or a single person, depending on the context (just like “you” in English). Sometimes people will use “vous tous” (literally “you all”) to make this clear.
It is a little better than the “you” situation in English since if you are speaking with someone that is not using the singular form of “vous” to speak about you (which is basically anyone you are familiar with unless they are your boss or In-laws and kind of oldschool), it is instantly clear what they mean at least.
In Portuguese (especially Brazilian), there are singular and plural forms of “you”: “você” (singular) and “vocês” (plural). In English, “you” behaves like a plural because it’s followed by “are” instead of “is”. The only exception I can see is “yourself” and “yourselves” that refer to both singular and plural forms.
However, In Portuguese, even though we have “vocês” as plural form, we also use “vocês todos” or “todos vocês” (“you all”/“all of you”) sometimes.
Spanish has “Ustedes” (except in Spain, they use “Vosotros/Vosotras”)
English used to be like other European languages too. We had thou/thee for singular, and you/ye for plural, and for respectful singular. Eventually, people began using it as respectful singular for everyone, and so it just became singular and plural, eclipsing thou/thee. Around this time, the you/ye accusative/nominative distinction was also lost, so now we just have you.
If you’re curious, the you/ye distinction worked like this: “you” was used for the subject (the doer) of the sentence, and “ye” was used for the object (the done to). you/ye are analogous to I/me.
“You come with me.” (plural you)
“I come with ye.” (plural ye)
As a result of the loss of thou, we also lost the conjugation of verbs related to it, like “art” instead of “are”, and “-st” or “-est” for other verbs (“goest”, “thinkst”, etc). It used to be that “are” was only for plural pronouns, but now both “you” and “they” can be singular.
And if you’re curious about what happened to “-eth”, evidence suggests this was for a long time a typographic feature, and it was pronounced “-s” as it is today. It was used exactly like “-s”. “He thinketh” would have been pronounced “he thinks”.
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People where I am from call everyone “you guys” - men, women, trans, doesn’t matter, everyone is just “you guys” even when it’s a woman addressing a group of women.
The literal meaning isn’t gender neutral, but in actual practice, it 100% is.
As for “y’all” or “you all”, I don’t see how it could possibly be interpreted as offensive to any gender.
“You People” is the one to be avoided
“howdy fuckers” is the opposite as it sounds bad on paper but in practice it goes over well (except with middle aged moms)
“G’day cunts” goes over either extremely well or extremely poorly, with no in-between
Ah the classic way to say hello in Australian.
What do you mean "you people"?
Yeah I don’t see that one going over well anywhere
Dude is also situationally gender neutral. Saying “Hey dude” to a trans woman is misgendering her but exclaiming “Yo dude check this out!” or “Duuuude no way” is perfectly acceptable.
The literal meaning isn’t gender neutral, but in actual practice, it 100% is.
Unless you can ask a straight man how many guys he’s slept with, it isn’t gender neutral, no matter how resistant to this fact you are.
That’s how people use it, whether you like it or not. I did not invent the language, but that’s how people use it.
Saying “guys” on its own is also not the same thing as “you guys” in regions that do this.
You can shoot the messenger all you like but it is what it is and I have no power over how people in a region use a language, I am merely informing you of that fact.
I don’t see the issue with using the term “guys” in the plural when referring to a group regardless of sex. That would align with the definition of the word. I’m pretty sure that’s how they meant it.
Unless you can ask a straight man how many guys he’s slept with, it isn’t gender neutral, no matter how resistant to this fact you are.
E: the fact that neither of you give a shit about the people telling you the term isn’t gender neutral, doesn’t apply to us, and that we don’t feel comfortable with you using it to speak to or about us says it all. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do to convince yourself otherwise you are the ones choosing to be the problem instead of actually listening to others and showing some basic respect. It’s an easy fix, too - all you have to do is give a minimal fuck about others.
don’t feel comfortable with you using it to speak to or about us
This actually is relevant, but wasn’t part of your initial statement. If you don’t like people using the term to refer to you then people should absolutely make an effort to not use that term when referencing you.
Saying there’s some mental gymnastics on my part is a bit of stretch, it’s how the word is defined in the dictionary. All I needed was to read. There’s no disrespect here, if you don’t like it then using the term to refer to you would be disrespectful, but I haven’t done so.
As for “y’all” or “you all”, I don’t see how it could possibly be interpreted as offensive to any gender.
I think “we don’t take kindly to y’all” to a trans person would likely be offensive. Beyond that though, you’re probably okay.
“yall” is obviously not the problematic part of that sentence
I might as well double down while I’m here, “we don’t take kindly” was too aggressive wording.
I meant something more neutral like “I think y’all are weird”.
That way, the y’all is the problematic part. That was my point.
Nope, “y’all” is still not the problematic part
Okay, I’ll bite. How is y’all not the problematic part when it’s specifically referring to trans people in that case?
That certainly seems problematic to me.
Literally the entire rest of the sentence is the problematic part. “We don’t take kindly to you”, it doesn’t matter if they say “y’all”, “you all”, “you people”, “your kind”, take your pick, it’s not the problem with the sentence
I mean … Thats just an all out threat with y’all acting as an exclusionary statement.
All in all agree with your point tho.
You forgot “Yinz”
Yinz goin aht n abaht in dahntahn Picksburgh to watch da Stillers game?
Yinz is definitely a Scots thing
That’s actually “you’uns” and despite being from the deep south I barely ever heard it growing up. Guessing you are from the south too
Yinz is a Pittsburgh and Pennsyltucky thing
Genuine question. What is the “tucky” in pennsyltucky? Is it somehow tied to Kentucky?
Yeah, it’s the area south of Pittsburgh near WV, why is it called Pennsyltucky instead of Pennsylvirginia? No idea.
But, it’s more of a “here be hillbillies” thing, especially when compared to the rest of the state.Not just the area south - basically all the area in between the two cities. And yeah, it’s basically like saying “once you’re out of the cities, you might as well be in Kentucky.”
Kentucky = Hicks
I was editing an Irish comedy recently which used “yinz” and “yiz” a lot.
Wow, this is news to me. How does a new word get the s to change to a z like that??
Yall is the genderless southern hospitality greeting.
No bullshit no hate. Only yall
I’ve used y’all intentionally as a gender neutral term for years in the south.
Lately I’ve even seen “y’all means all” used as a pride slogan in the south.
Awesome! Thanks comrade.
Y’all actually has gained particular traction in the north through the queer community. Most trans people I know use y’all even if their geographic location doesn’t indicate they should
How you fuckers doing, eh?
I mean, neither “you” nor “all” is a gendered term in any way
Second person never has a gender in English. Saying “you” should also be fine, or “thee” if you feel like getting your quaker on.
Special requests notwithstanding - the platinum rule here is just to accommodate whatever you reasonably can.
Y’all is the opposite of offensive for trans people. I lived in the south for a while, and I now use y’all specifically to be inclusive. I wouldn’t say “you guys” is offensive to trans women, but I would say for me and likely other trans women it briefly brings to mind being misgendered in the past, so I would call it a small kindness to ube as gender neutral as possible.
Yup, I specifically use y’all and recommend it to people (like my parents) to replace gendered phrases, and I’m not from the y’all zone.
Still up for debate, “dude” and “hun/hon”.
*I’m a trans woman also
I feel like I have watched in real time as Y’all has gained usage up in the Canadian Queer community.
I am old enough to still regard “hon” as demi hostile but “dude” seems to be drifting more and more gender neutral. At heart we may all just be ninja turtles all the way down
As a cis male, I’ve exclusively been called “Hun / Hon” by waitresses and gay men.
I’ve not been offended by any of them.
There’s a hidden usage of “hon” from the history of the toxic trans communities message boards to mean “trans women who don’t pass” and is used condescendingly. That usage is basically dead in the water and barely known outside of a pretty narrow sliver of the queer community but it can still get you a side eye in some places.
Oof, noted.
I’ll keep that in my head as something to watch for
Thanks comrade
We are afraid to use common greetings now? How about we all refer to each other as “carbon units”?
Am I the only one who actually looked for more pixels for this guy?
Anywho, here you go my guy:
Edit: hmmm, Lemmy seems to be compressing it. Here’s a link.
