Yes, there is a difference between the elite and the lower class, but it’s only in resources and opportunities. If both sides switched positions the lower class people would go for exactly the same fun as the elite is having right know. Because that’s the way we are born and raised, greedy and selfish. Purging a couple of assholes and replacing them with fresh soon-to-be assholes won’t solve this. Our mindset needs to change. We need to agree on what is important, what is enough and what’s obscene.
That may be how you were raised, but most of us were taught sandbox rules. You don’t just grab everything you can because it won’t be there tomorrow, you share or else.
If both sides switched positions the lower class people would go for exactly the same fun as the elite is having right know.
Then it seems to me that the real problem is the capacity for damage that being a billionaire grants you, not the people involved. Maybe we need to start looking at ways to limit the damage billionaires can do, instead of focusing so hard on changing the behavior of the masses.
Purging a couple of assholes and replacing them with fresh soon-to-be assholes won’t solve this
I’m not suggesting a purge, I’m suggesting we change the behavior of the billionaire class. That can be achieved with taxes, policy, and financial incentives just as easily as with violence (probably easier tbh).
Our mindset needs to change.
Dawg, we’ve been trying to change the mindset since (at least*) the 90s, and it’s just not enough. You and I can reuse our sustainably sourced reusable hemp shopping bags all we want, reduce our consumption all we want, recycle all we want, it doesn’t change the fact that Kroger is shipping in produce from half a planet away on a daily basis. We need to go further, and make the upper class take their share of responsibility for the damage they do to the environment.
We need to agree on what is enough and what’s obscene.
Agreeing on what’s enough is hard, but agreeing on what’s obscene is much much easier, and I think it’s safe to say that nearly every billionaire in the world exceeds what we can agree is obscene. That’s a much easier problem to solve, one we have the tools to solve now. Let’s tackle that first, while we work through the harder problem of figuring out what’s enough.
I like this debate, yet it’s getting long and complex, this would be better face to face. That’s why I’m picking only one topic:
One hemp bag needs to be used +1000 times to replace a thousand plastic bags in co2 emissions (they degrade, so at least they don’t kill sea animals, though). I have like 50 of them at home (bought none of them). Recycling is a lie as well, most stuff is still useless.
My point is: People are all for saving the planet as long as it’s as easy as buying a different or even a new product. People love to consume. But we won’t save anything with this mentality. We need to go NO THANKS! and stop habits that really affect us. Kroger shipping produce is not the problem, look at the first graph here, the stuff millions eat daily is. So, no more flying, no more meat, no more Amazon, we need to ostracize this behavior. Clean energy, public transport, EV, you money at an ethical bank is great if you can afford it and will get us a long way.
Again: I know this won’t save us and I’m all for canceling fossil destroyers, holding billionaires accountable and putting CEOs in jail. But it’s much easier to change yourself than to change Tylor Swift.
Brother, a huge chunk of people outside of Europe can’t do things like choose cleaner energy sources, choose to use public transportation, choose to live car free, choose to eat local produce, or choose to do any of those things in the articles you listed, because those choices do not exist for them. I don’t have access to local produce except a few weekends in the summer. My city doesn’t have functional public transportation. My apartment doesn’t let me choose where I get my energy from, and even if it did, there probably wouldn’t be a clean energy option in my state. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if more coal power plants were being built, due to lobbying and politicians that I voted against. Don’t you see how it’s frustrating when you say that these individual actions need to be the focus when it’s impossible for a ton of people to take those actions?
Yes, there is a difference between the elite and the lower class, but it’s only in resources and opportunities. If both sides switched positions the lower class people would go for exactly the same fun as the elite is having right know. Because that’s the way we are born and raised, greedy and selfish. Purging a couple of assholes and replacing them with fresh soon-to-be assholes won’t solve this. Our mindset needs to change. We need to agree on what is important, what is enough and what’s obscene.
That may be how you were raised, but most of us were taught sandbox rules. You don’t just grab everything you can because it won’t be there tomorrow, you share or else.
Then it seems to me that the real problem is the capacity for damage that being a billionaire grants you, not the people involved. Maybe we need to start looking at ways to limit the damage billionaires can do, instead of focusing so hard on changing the behavior of the masses.
I’m not suggesting a purge, I’m suggesting we change the behavior of the billionaire class. That can be achieved with taxes, policy, and financial incentives just as easily as with violence (probably easier tbh).
Dawg, we’ve been trying to change the mindset since (at least*) the 90s, and it’s just not enough. You and I can reuse our sustainably sourced reusable hemp shopping bags all we want, reduce our consumption all we want, recycle all we want, it doesn’t change the fact that Kroger is shipping in produce from half a planet away on a daily basis. We need to go further, and make the upper class take their share of responsibility for the damage they do to the environment.
Agreeing on what’s enough is hard, but agreeing on what’s obscene is much much easier, and I think it’s safe to say that nearly every billionaire in the world exceeds what we can agree is obscene. That’s a much easier problem to solve, one we have the tools to solve now. Let’s tackle that first, while we work through the harder problem of figuring out what’s enough.
I like this debate, yet it’s getting long and complex, this would be better face to face. That’s why I’m picking only one topic:
One hemp bag needs to be used +1000 times to replace a thousand plastic bags in co2 emissions (they degrade, so at least they don’t kill sea animals, though). I have like 50 of them at home (bought none of them). Recycling is a lie as well, most stuff is still useless.
My point is: People are all for saving the planet as long as it’s as easy as buying a different or even a new product. People love to consume. But we won’t save anything with this mentality. We need to go NO THANKS! and stop habits that really affect us. Kroger shipping produce is not the problem, look at the first graph here, the stuff millions eat daily is. So, no more flying, no more meat, no more Amazon, we need to ostracize this behavior. Clean energy, public transport, EV, you money at an ethical bank is great if you can afford it and will get us a long way.
Again: I know this won’t save us and I’m all for canceling fossil destroyers, holding billionaires accountable and putting CEOs in jail. But it’s much easier to change yourself than to change Tylor Swift.
Brother, a huge chunk of people outside of Europe can’t do things like choose cleaner energy sources, choose to use public transportation, choose to live car free, choose to eat local produce, or choose to do any of those things in the articles you listed, because those choices do not exist for them. I don’t have access to local produce except a few weekends in the summer. My city doesn’t have functional public transportation. My apartment doesn’t let me choose where I get my energy from, and even if it did, there probably wouldn’t be a clean energy option in my state. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if more coal power plants were being built, due to lobbying and politicians that I voted against. Don’t you see how it’s frustrating when you say that these individual actions need to be the focus when it’s impossible for a ton of people to take those actions?
Well, if you can’t then don’t!
No meat, no planes and no unnecessary Amazon purchases still applies. Be the change you want to see in the world.
poore-nemecek can’t be trusted to be the basis of my dietary decisions. it probably can’t even be trusted to have understood it’s own source data.