In an unexpected mask off “secure” email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton’s services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let’s collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇
Always try to provide:
-Server location (jurisdiction)
-Governance
-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency
-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)
-Pricing and links
If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.
#ProtonExodus
Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116
Edit:typo
Why treat Proton like it’s the work of a single person rather than a large team?
Sooo, can we not create and/or finance our own? Please be gentle…but…is there not enough of us paying for proton and other privacy apps to fund a floss or non-profit version? I mean there are tech nerds all over this place, along with law nerds and political nerds…etc…(meant with love btw) that would have an instant user base.
I pledge here to sub up to $15usd/month for any lemmy person that starts an entity that provides us with what we need with ethics and morality of lemmy common.
Wow!
Of all companies, this is one I didn’t expect.
Damn.
the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital
What’s insane is that didn’t Proton just recently announce they were converting to a non-profit?
Yes, they did: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation
Yea, and Andy Yen is only one of five members on the board of the Non-Profit organization, so you’ll just have to gamble that everyone else isn’t this weird (if you still want to continue using Proton services, that is, your choice 🤷♂️).
There is absolutely no way to verify any of Proton’s privacy claims. Why should I trust one for profit company over another?
... ... ....,, .
Why would this be unexpected?
Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.
https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation
Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I’m setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.
Proton has been shady for years.
From reading that article it looks like they were only using and able to log the IP address when the person logged in to their protonmail account specifically - not VPN.
They even state that VPNs can not be forced to log under the same legal order and are treated differently so in this case it seems the activists were not using the VPN while accessing their emails.
Although I dont agree with even the logging of the email IP, it appears like the user shot themselves in the foot like that other case where someone used their real name in the username and that obviosly has to be logged in some way.
I wish I had heard of this earlier, that combined with these new political statements is enough for me to find something else.
I didn’t know about this. I haven’t followed Proton closely for a while, but this…wow. Kinda lousy.
Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.
I thought they were talking about the elementary particle—I was afraid we’d have to find some other way of manifesting our physical existence.
Aww man! AGAIN?!?
If that proton goes nazi, I am going straight to the farm
I don’t use proton, but I would be grateful if you could share a link on how Proton sided with fascists.
Also, I use Mullvad for VPN and I host my own email
They didn’t exactly “side with fascists”, but Andy Yen, one of the board members on the Non-Profit that owns Proton AG, has very bad takes on politics, and just has a right-wing “Libertarian” vibe.
https://x.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660 (https://archive.is/l1WYU)
https://x.com/andyyen/status/1812442643726537182 (https://archive.is/ADc8C)
Libertarian and Republicans have nothing in common do not mix
There is a Venn diagram where all of us overlap.
Even the US Republicans and Trump supporters are distinct with some overlapping values.
Huh, I wasn’t very concerned with your links… but I googled and found out Andy Yen is the founder. That’s alarming
True, but Tim Brenners-Lee is also on the board, and he historically has generally good takes on tech and politics.
People are often unwilling to go against the positions of the guy who created the World Wide Web.
If his presence at proton is the old thing holding back the stupid, then it isn’t as good a company as we has been thinking.
I dont know of any alternatives but I will use Zoho Mail for now with my own domain. As they are cheap and reliable. I been using them for my business and it is great.
Tuta and Mailbox.org allow custom domains.
I just wish zoho would hide my IP when I use their SMTP. I get that’s how mail headers have always worked but it blows my mind that it’s still standard practice to expose the IP of your mail server or home network.
Protonmail has been my main email provider for the past 7 years, and unless its CEO decides to sell it to Trump or Musk I honestly don’t see how his stupid private or not so private opinions are worth the hassle of changing my email for the million things I use my main and all the other emails I registered with Protonmail.
Most rich people have very dubious or outright awful political opinions and unless you’re rich enough to have someone build you an alternative or deconnected enough from society/only exist in programmer circles and are able to live entirely on FOSS software I don’t see why the average user should care about the CEO’s political stance. Maybe that’s my ignorant opinion as a European, but would you stop using Linux if you found out Linus Torvalds secretly loves Windows? Probably not.Service =/= Software
Proton could (theoretically) hold your data hostage. Linus Torvalds could not just update linux to inject a maga banner in your desktop, or turn your os into ransomware. Even if your distro maintainer wanted to do that, you still have the final say on whether or not to update (and if you keep up with the news, you can just avoid the update and wait for someone to fork it).
Your analogy/ example is fucked up and beyond stupid. Protonmail is hosted by the organization. Linus has no access to the Linux systems in the world. Also, thousands have contributed to the Linux ecosystem.
I agree that my analogy is fucked up and a little stupid, but I was just applying OPs logic: Andy Yen doesn’t do any more for Proton than Linus Torvalds does for Linux; they’re just stand in figures that people project their love or in this case hate onto. I doubt he personally wrote a single line of code for Proton. In that case Linus Torvalds is actually way more involved with Linux than Andy Yen is with Proton; Andy Yen might have more power over Proton but afaik and like you said Proton is owned in majority by its foundation, which I hope does get a say in what they do.
How dare you find a tone to respond that makes me regret my original harsh choice of words a little? :P Still - my point was that no matter how much Torvals is involved, the linux ecosystem isn’t under his control, while proton services are very much under corporate control, and if their CEO decides to introduce a backdoor for american nazi services, that can happen.
Unlike some I’m not here to insult other people :)
Yeah you have a point there and I totally get how my comment was a bit shortsighted on that end, but I was just weirded out by the fact that a CEO’s political position is supposed to be indicative of the future actions/positions of a company. Sure it’s not entirely unlikely that it might affect the company in the future, but OPs post just felt a little like fearmongering to me.Have you been following the news though? The 180 policy swings the moment it seemed good for business under a new administration in the divided states? Is it really so far-fetched to worry about a dipshit at the top of a company?
He directly profits from Proton subscriptions. As does the rest of the leadership which seem to back him on this.
A comparison of singing the praises for a modern proto-fascist movement with “secretly loving Windows” is… certainly something.
Yeah you’re right, I hadn’t considered that because I never paid a single cent for anything Proton, that’s a mistake on my part. Sometimes I forget capitalism is still a thing.
A comparison of singing the praises for a modern proto-fascist movement with “secretly loving Windows” is… certainly something.
If that’s the takeaway you had from reading both of my comments then I honestly can’t help you, but I can try to spell out my intent a second time:
I deliberately chose Linus Torvalds because he’s basically Jesus of Lemmy but I didn’t expect to be called a fascist over a dumb analogy I used to show that OP might be overextrapolating a CEO’s standpoint onto a whole company. I agree that there is a not insignificant risk of this affecting the company, don’t get me wrong, but this post just feels like fearmongering.I think you misread my comment. I didn’t call you a fascist, I simply called out two points where your comparison falls flat.
Wow. Sweet tantrum. Hope it pays dividends. I’ve seen enough, Lemmy. G’bye.
Wow, lots of people on Lemmy just look at screenshots of text and dont read anything anymore.
I dont think he said anything controversial. Read what he wrote.
He’s not supporting Trump or the Republican party in general. He is calling them out for selecting someone good on antitrust. That’s not controversial.
I use mailbox.org its pretty sweet
I own and operate https://port87.com/, and in no way am I even close to right wing. I don’t call myself a liberal, and get offended when people do, because I’m a leftist.
It’s not ready for business email yet, but it’ll work for your personal email.
Sigh.
Goddammit. I’m so fucking tired.
This is how they win.
Like zombies, slow and steady, dumb and hungry
Perfect
Am I the only that don’t see this the same way as the rest? I am in way way endorsing or supporting MAGA, but they did take action against big tech (though for reasons of retribution) and I see Proton only acknowledging a good person being designated to lead the next antitrust efforts, apparently with a good track record.
Proton also acknowledges Lina Kahn who has done a great job, nominated under Joe Biden.
Ultimately, I feel like from a perspective of Proton, any win against Big Tech, is a good win, and I can’t disagree.
There is a longer discussion to be had around how the dems were supported by oligarchs and I think that’s what Proton is referring to, they decided to turn a blind eye under the Obama administration for instance. Bernie Sanders goes to lengths about this in this interview, illuminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzkgWDCucNY
So all in all, maga sucks, new pick probably good, and in my view, proton not actually endorsing maga/trump but just acknowledging a good pick.
Did I miss something?
The main part of the message that pissed me off was the idea that GOP sides with the “little guy”. First, it’s demonstrably false. Second, he is a tech CEO. He wouldn’t recognise a little guy before his security crew has time to forcibly remove him.
Yes I fully agree with you.
Does that claim alone warrant the absolute backlash though? I personally feel like no.
Be tired with Tuta!
This reads like an angry response to what Proton has been doing very recently.
Take a moment to reflect how you started to use their services. Really think about what you thought at the time about them being the right service for your needs.
Did anything really change for you, other than thinking your porn download history is now as safe as Nazi gold in Switzerland?
Take the next step, and don’t look back.
So literally one guy can change your entire network lifestyle?
