I personally think Ubuntu sucks, thats why I always reccomend other distros to people starting :3
Productivity: Debian (you dont need up to date packages if all you do is edit documents)
Gaming: Pop_OS (especially when Cosmic releases)
Bah. Me, I’ve been using Debian since 1997. I’ve tried Ubuntu (and, what was it called, Progeny?) a few times but decided it was just Debian with extra steps.
You clearly didn’t try <insert favorite distro> then!
It’s better than Windows at least.
that’s a pretty low bar tbh. i think a programmable calculator would beat windows
And they actively work towards an abomination like windows with the decisions they made.
How can it suck the least if it has snap?
Snaps can be annoying, but are no deal breaker. A deal breaker would be having to put a lot of work in over and over, like manually resolving dependencies or compile/install errors, breaking system, etc.
I like user respecting operating systems, that is the deal breaker.
If you insert snap into apt package management, so that you can go behind the user’s back, re-enable snap and install a snap anyway if a user tries to
apt install firefox, you don’t respect the user’s choice. It’s the kind of thing we give Microsoft shit for.And yes I know it can be worked around and disabled and whatnot by jumping through various hoops, but that’s beside the point. As a matter of principle, I will just use something that doesn’t do this. KDE on Debian works just as well as Kubuntu anyway.
I don’t care what some distro snob thinks… I use ubuntu and have few problems. I replace the snaps and move on. I’ve been using Linux longer than most of them have been alive. They can pretend that makes me behind the times but somehow I always seem to be ahead of them. Having made my stance clear.
I don’t care what distro they use. Why would I?
Ironic - one of the reasons I like Ubuntu based distros is the easy access to snaps.
Fascinating. I was just wondering if anyone could actually like snap and I personally knew no one until now.
FWIW I’m a long time Kubuntu user and I like it very much. But the snap experience has me on the brink of switching to a different distro.
I’ll use one if it is something more obscure. I do however replace things like firefox and vlc with the source repo.
Switching Firefox from the apt repo to the snap is one of the things I did when using KDE Neon on my laptop (on my desktop with Nvidia I did the opposite on Kubuntu).
I don’t know what you mean about VLC though - while it’s available as an official snap published by VideoLAN, it’s also in the apt repos on all Ubuntu versions.
Its probably fixed now but for years vlc suffered from several bugs on ubuntu the worst being it launching multiple windows despite having that disabled in settings. I started using the PPA and now I just skip ubuntu maintained versions.
Ahh, well that’s a different thing. The snap though is maintained by the VideoLAN folks and part of their official repo.
there’s just no reason to start using it when mint exists
Configuring Kubuntu for my liking is way easier than configuring mint for my liking, and some of that mint configuration is going out of the way to undo things the mint maintainers did intentionally.
Then you chose right! Regarding Ubuntu I have been using it for work VMs and it’s adequate, my current annoyance is that you can’t easily change the UI colours to distinguish different projects, because it’s not the “Ubuntu way”, maybe I’ll find a hack.
Mint not officially shipping with KDE is a source of my personal frustration. Would have checked it out more thoroughly otherwise.
Wayland
true
what do you actually need Wayland for though? waydroid is the only one i can think of
(I didn’t downvote you, just fyi, don’t know why someone would)
I personally have no issues with x11 if i’m using just one monitor, but if I use two or more I have nothing but issues. I am a tired sysadmin and don’t want to fight my personal equipment at home.
I have 2 monitors at different refresh rates
same and never had an issue with x11. two monitors at different resolutions and different refresh rates.
You haven’t noticed the issue then. X11 tends to run everything at the lowest common denominator, and doesn’t allow per-monitor scaling.
Q: what does
apt install firefoxdo? Surely it uses apt to install Firefox, right??? A: The command gets highjacked by snap, which promptly crashed and hangs.Ran into this just a few hours ago, made the mistake of suggesting Ubuntu as a sane default (instead of debian or something else), never making that mistake again hopefully.
What does
apt install firefoxdo in Debian Stable?package »firefox« has no installation candidateFirefox isn’t in Debian’s repository, cause it moves too fast for Debian’s release cycle and is too complicated for their security team.
Debian instead offersfirefox-esr
Ubuntu instead offersfirefoxsnapHere’s a thought: Before installing packages you don’t understand, go to the Firefox site and follow their instructions which work fine on Ubuntu and doesn’t install snap.
I’m not a fan of snap either, but with all software, people need to RTFM. Not do the dumb thing and then cry on the Internet seeking hive mind rage when the dumb thing happens.
I think expecting people running Ubuntu to RTFM is a longshot. The people installing it want an experience where they don’t want to put any effort into learning how things work. If they did they probably would run something else.
I’ve followed those directions, only to find snap firefox was reinstalled a few months later.
Switched to Debian, much happier.
Usually I hate when people ditch an entire distro because they don’t understand or refuse to understand its quirks, but…
Switched to Debian
At least there was a happy ending.
Where was I refusing to understand its quirks? After several years of using snap-based Firefox, I came to the conclusion that I didn’t like the snap based installation of firefox. So, I followed the directions to go back to a deb-based Firefox installation. But Kubuntu “helpfully” reverted it a few months later, and that cycle repeated a few times.
I specifically requested the deb-based installation and it ignored my wishes. I know what operating system that reminds me of, and it isn’t Linux.
I’m sure someone will tell me I’m wrong for wanting a .deb-based Firefox and that snaps are better anyway. Even if that’s true (I don’t care to argue), I chose a path and Kubuntu overrode my choice. Silently, too.
I’ll also note that I started using Kubuntu back in 2008 or so, and stopped last year. I used it on both my desktop and laptop machines. So, it wasn’t like I just tried it for a few hours and got upset; I was a long time user that was quite familiar with how it worked. For most of that time, I was really happy with Kubuntu, but having it override my explicit configuration was extremely frustrating.
Others can continue to use it, that’s fine with me. This isn’t a personal attack on anyone’s choices.
Mint fixes that. Based on Ubuntu, it intentionally disables Snap, and all apt commands actually use apt.
Or yes, just straight up use Debian if you don’t mind older apps outside Flatpaks.
This is the way. Debian net install. Or even better, boot over iPXE, ephemeral kernel in RAM with only backups and static binaries written to disk. Snapshotting handled by BTRFS
Except I just uninstalled Mint’s default Firefox because whatever additional theming they did to my boy fucked up the right click context menu. FF is now flatpak.
I’m pretty sure Mozilla encourages use of the flatpak. Flatpak FF is definitely the way to go.
Firefox isn’t in the repos of Debian, so any derivative (derivative (derivative)) distro must deal with that in some way.
You can also install Linux Mint Debian Edition which isn’t based on Ubuntu at all.
Happy cake day!
Note that on the negative side it inherits most of the issues of Debian, including extremely old packages.
Also, Debian 12 finally got very user-friendly enough to the point I would recommend it over LMDE.
That’s true, but if you want you can change to testing repos. I still prefer it over vanilla Debian due to polish. I find even using Cinnamon DE in Debian it’s just rougher around the edges than Mint.
Fair enough - if you’re a fan of Cinnamon, LMDE will always be a bit more polished. I can see your use case :)
LMDE, Linux Mint Debian Edition was my goto for a long time.
I’m interested in what made you choose LMDE over stock Debian
Is it because you found the UI more convenient and organized? Or was it before Debian 12 and you wanted to avoid technical difficulties with nonfree software?
Yeah, this was around the time they first released it. Back then I had issues with downloading and installing Debian, regardless of drivers. I was inexperienced, and was using Mint (ubuntu-based) already, so the UI (gtk2, mate) was a huge plus for my restricted specs (a netbook)
Use debian testing if you want up-to-date software. The name implies it’s unstable, but it’s really not. Debian stable absurdly stable, and debian testing is regular stable.
So would you prefer they just remove the
firefoxpackage from new releases without offering an upgrade path?
I like Ubuntu, use it as my main laptop os, and main server’s os for a production system that’s been upgraded through 3 LTS versions without issue. Three.
I don’t think windows can do that, at all.
Have you ever upgraded the Ubuntu laptop? Cause that’s my main gripe with Ubuntu. Server upgrades work, desktop upgrades never did for me.
Have you ever upgraded the Ubuntu laptop? Cause that’s my main gripe with Ubuntu. Server upgrades work, desktop upgrades never did for me.
I wonder about this. I have been running Ubuntu on one of my laptops for years, and updated it several times withouth hitch. All the way from around 18.10 to 22.04 (non-lts, so I upgraded to every release) until the laptop was replaced.
Usually the breakage happens if one has tons of shitty third-party repos and thus will get package conflicts when upgrading. And those are solved by removing/replacing all software installed from those repos and then after upgrade reinstalling them again if needed.
I can’t speak for plain Ubuntu, but I’ve got desktops running both Kubuntu and KDE Neon that have been upgraded version to version for over a decade now. (Ok I lie. The Kubuntu one is a laptop.)
I don’t love Ubuntu as a desktop, but i’ll fight to let other people try it and make up their own minds.
We have rather substantial tribe mind going on with anti AI, linux distros that suck, and which browsers are awful.
We’ve had hivemind since forever, but it’s starting to get more pronounced.
Ubutu sucks really bad. I installed it checks notes 17 years ago and I didn’t even get internet running out of the box. Fedora 41 is just so much better and I can’t see how anyone can argue with that.
Yes, Fedora 41 is undoubtedly better than a 17 year old version of Ubuntu.
I believe that was the joke
I get the annoyance around tribalism/elitism, some people in other posts pointed out the fact that silly dramas and bad/dumb linux takes scares out new users but tbh I feel more confortable with a vocal community, even a silly one. Feels healthier and more alive to me than a mute and apathetic one.
If something goes wrong, if something displeases someone we will hear about it, people will get angry, at the worst we get a nice entertainment to watch and a good laugh, at the very best it leads us to some nice changes.
It’s something I grew to like about Linux, even the silliness of it all, even how you can’t really tell if people are dead serious or not about the stupidest things.
Amen brother. I’m really hoping a lot of these gotchas get ironed out in some way as more people start choosing Linux over windows. I would be really happy to see some smoother experiences in the coming year or years. Don’t get me wrong, things are a bajillion times better than ten years ago, but there’s still a ways to go yet.
I switched to fedora cold turkey a few months ago and honestly its a better experience than windows by far. As a bonus games that work poorly or don’t work on the os they were made for, work on linux now.
Yeah no it does suck it made me think the Linux experience was at least 3x worse before I tried another distro.
And not just a DE thing, every part of the distro feels like it was slapped on without actually thinking of the consequences.
- netplan
- apt
- default systemd dependencies
- ubuntu GNOME
- snap
- ubuntu pro
- cloudinit conf
You can find forums and docs from as old as Fedora 11 that’s still relevant yet Ubuntu utterly fails to keep consistency across a single version update because they changed something that’s only mentioned in the changelog.
Every downstream of Ubuntu is essentially focused on removing all the BS the upstream has so you can use your computer without something breaking like it’s Arch.
There is no right answer to the correct distro, only a wrong answer, and that is Ubuntu because practically anything else including its downstreams like LM are better for you as a user.
without something breaking like its arch
I have had seven full-system failures across the last two decades using Ubuntu that could not easily be troubleshooted and fixed.
I have had exactly zero with Arch.
Take that as you will.
Fair enough, edited lol
«an overused meme about Arch» was a very nice edit I must say xD
xD
I had similar bad luck with Linux mint. So many things just didn’t work, or didn’t work correctly. Wifi issues, sound issues, graphics issues, issues setting up particular things for software development. I’ve switched to NixOS and I’m having a much easier time. A significant amount of my improved experience could be attributed to more patience or just an improved ability to deal with problems. I also suspect cinnamon was causing some of my problems, somehow whereas now I have GNOME on my main rig and lxqt on my laptop.
Nothing wrong with Ubuntu.
Plenty wrong with Ubuntu.
If you use it wrong, sure. There’s a use for almost anything; just gotta figure out what’s appropriate.
Ubuntu is perfect for my non-technical, 76 year old father to run his own plex server where I don’t have to help too much.
Well Ubuntu os not that bad if you just stick to the ecosystem. I mean… Not everyone… Pffft… Wants to… HmmHMpf… Babysit… Ahahahah I can’t…
Just install Mint
No thanks. The Mint maintainers keeping provable misinformation in their documentation despite being called out on it makes me distrust them.
citation needed
https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html
Snap on the other hand, only works with the Ubuntu Store.
It also works with any other distribution and signing mechanism you want, including signing the snap files yourself and distributing them via GitHub releases if you prefer. Snaps installed like that won’t get magically replaced with store snaps either.
Nobody knows how to make a Snap Store and nobody can.
There’s documentation available online, and it’s known to be usable because someone did implement their own minimal store. The project kinda died out of lack of interest though.
I can’t find the issue I filed years ago about this (and more). They have at least made the page less filled with emotionally-charged language, though.
Just by how the documentation is written, you should understand who’s its target audience: it’s clearly for new users that want to understand their philosophy.
Is it oversimplified? Yes.
Does this mean it’s misinformation? If I can oversimplify, then no it’s not.It’s not oversimplified - it’s exaggerating to the point of misinformation, and it’s written more like a political screed than like documentation.
I don’t see it that way but I’m not gonna argue, since I have no horse in this race. I’m not an ubuntu hater, I actually think it’s both a good gateway to the FOSS world and a good permanent solutions for those who don’t mind a corporate approach to linux. I just find it funny to take random punches at it once in a while…
Humour at Ubuntu’s expense is fine, as long as it’s good natured and actually making valid criticisms about it. The problem is that low effort “lol ubuntu bad” memes don’t tend to be either of those. Moreover, documentation is not an appropriate place to make questionable political claims.
I don’t know why we’re still doing snap discourse in 2025. I’m going to be harsh and direct.
It has a proprietary server backend. This is objectively true. Theoretically you can build an open source backend, but nobody has completed a full implementation of it.
If you don’t care about that, you can use Ubuntu, nobody is stopping you. You don’t need other people’s approval. Which is good, because of the people who disapprove, you’re never going to get their approval until it’s actually open sourced. You’re not going to convince anybody here to stop caring that it’s proprietary. So just get over it and use your own operating system without airing your insecurities online about it.
I never said Canonical’s store isn’t proprietary. I said the statements in Mint’s anti-snap screed are factually incorrect.
What irritates me is all the “lol ubuntu sux” posts showing me that the quality of the discourse is declining. There are valid criticisms, but there are also invalid criticisms. And the recent string of anti-Ubuntu memes has been clearly in the latter. So yeah, I will mock those, and it’s nothing to do with insecurities. Are you sure you’re not just projecting?
The counter to low-quality “Ubuntu sux” posts is not low quality “nuh uh it’s actually super epic!!!” posts, but that’s all we ever get. I’ve seen this pattern for probably fifteen years now, and it’s exhausting. If you don’t care about the criticisms and want to keep using it, then keep using it. More power to you. I probably use things you think are garbage. Hell, Windows users think we both use garbage. I’m just tired of people desperate to justify their choices like they need to “prove” something to everyone who disagrees.
There are plenty of high quality takedowns of Ubuntu, but so rarely are there high quality defenses of it, generally because the criticisms are correct. Nobody ever talks about what makes Ubuntu good, not even Ubuntu users. Arch users will yap your ear off about ArchWiki and AUR. I’ll evangelize Nix to anybody who will listen as the future of advanced Linux management. OpenSUSE Tumbleweed fans will not shut up about rollbacks and bleeding edge software. Fedora users… well, Fedora users are usually busy out there actually doing productive things with their time instead of pointless internet squabbles.
But what is Ubuntu strong at? I genuinely have no idea. All I ever see Ubuntu users say is that it “sucks the least”, in some vague indescribable way. That it’s not as bad as everyone says, that Snaps are actually fine, etc. Always on the defensive. If Ubuntu is actually good, somebody needs to get out there and make a case for what it’s good at, besides being featured as the default instructions for running proprietary third-party software.
Okay, I’ll start. Ubuntu is good at providing a way to test and build packages for platforms you don’t necessarily have access to, for free. And because Launchpad does snap builds, that extends to those too. I have in the past used Launchpad builds to generate debugging information that solved an architecture-specific bug I wasn’t able to reproduce in QEMU and which would otherwise have remained a mystery due to my lack of access to 6 figures worth of mainframe. And I didn’t have to be an Ubuntu maintainer or anything for that. I just had to have a free Launchpad account.
Don’t feel attacked by anti ubuntu posts
I laugh over anti Arch / openSuse memes just as hard, if the meme based on something that is kinda true and not just some preconception or rumor.
Thing is that a lot arch user have to struggle with ubuntu at work and see how a lot is just more complicated and harder to set up without any seeable reason. And of course, using Ubuntu feels like using a PC with your parents in the back warning you about any shit you already have done 1000 times.
I don’t feel attacked by them, I feel irritated by some of them. The ones that irritate me are ones that repeat misinformation or otherwise harm the discourse, and that goes for memes that attack any distro like that.
Funny enough, arch is a distro I can’t stand because of the (IMO) backwards and stupid ways it does a lot of things, making it harder to set up without any good reason. But I’m not out there spamming the place with “lol arch sux” memes about that.
